I ran across a website that sold me rubber molds to make stone veneer. I was suprised that they sold me less than 100sqft of molds. I tried to buy from another company and needed to buy at least 100sqft of molds to get started. I just wanted to make enough stone to complete my 2200sqft project so I got a 20sqft package of rubber molds.
I was going to pay $7 a sqft for Cultured Stone but after doing the numbers...hmmm...I couldn't afford it. Making my own stone cost me roughly $1.13 cents sqft including labor. I used a high performance concrete mix in order to get 4 castings a day out of my molds, as opposed to the standard 1 time a day. That gave me 80sqft of stone per day so I was able to finish in about 1 1/2 months. I actually had to make around 2230sqft of stone since some of the stone were undesireable due to air-holes...but I fixed that.
Real World Bottom Line:
2200sqft job using Cultured Stone @ roughly $7sqft would have cost me $15400.00.
2200sqft job making my own stone @ $1.13sqft costs me $500 for the molds and another $2486 for materials/misc. items. I spent roughly $3000 to make my own stone veneer and saved roughly $12400.00.
I sent a picture of the finished project to the folks that sold me the molds so it might be posted on their site under the Parson Residence. If someone else has expirience making stone veneer or any tips or tricks you can pass on...Im all ears cause Im getting ready for another project.
A few questions:
What kind of a high performance mix? - high early cement? accellerator?
What kind of aggregate did you use? All normal heavyweight or did you use some lightweight?
Did you use any pigment to get different colors? If so, what kind of pigment - powdered iron oxide, liquid iron oxide, organic, other? Spray mlds with pigment before filling?
Did you use anything to make the concrete air entrained?
Looking forwar to seeing the completed photos.
Right now the selection of patterns and colors available and will be until Owens and others can get more plants built. The vinyl siding is so boring and temporary looking, it has caused a boom the cultured stone.
Dick
Stone of DIY quality sells for a couple of bucks a foot around here, and Eldorado goes for 5, with Cultured Stone being the best and most expensive at 5-7$.
Considering the labor of mixing small batches of concrete and attempting to get a decent range of color and quality, I wouldn't think it is worth it.
Let's do it step by step:
1. Apply color slurry to mold
2. Mix concrete
3. Pour concrete
4. Clean mixer and slurry tools
5. Wait 2-4 hours
6. Pop and stack stone
7. Clean and prep molds
Return to step one, 4 times a day for 28 days, 10+ hours a day. Your labor must be cheaper than mine.
Im aware of the low cost alternatives to Cultured Stone, Eldorado Stone, etc, that can be purchased for as low as $3sqft. As you know, the quality is horrible and the colors are just as bad (At least around here). Being able to make stone for myself provided me with the option to spend more money on ingredients than a manufacturer would since I was not trying to mass produce at a product at a cheap price. I was able to customize my colors and also make what I needed and be able to make more when I needed too. I wanted to make something that would put the most expensive stone veneer to shame and thats what I did.
Even if I purchased stone @$3sqft, I would have still payed roughly 2.5x more than doing it myself. I'm not rich so saving a few thousand dollars and producing a great looking customized product is very significant for me.
I used a High Performance Cement - Grey - that was half of my cementatious material. The other half was a Type 2 Portland and a Natural Pozzolan which prevents effloresence and reduces how much water I need to use. My mix came out to 7000+ PSI @ 28days...way over the code requirments.
I tried to get pumice as a lightweight aggregate but couldn't get it in small quantities. So I opted to use Masonry Sand and Pea Gravel as my aggregate. The weight wasn't that much different after the stones cured, were still within building code and went up fine.
To color my stones I purchased powdered iron oxide pigment from the mold company. I decided to use an integral color so that my stones wouldn't reveal the unatural interior when it was chipped or cut. I alternated my integral colors so that I would be able to get accent colors from the leftover residue of the previous color. That made the stones look great with nice accent colors as well as cut down on having to clean the molds.
2 people can do it with no problem at all. 1 person can do it with a little hard work.
That includes the following:
1. Laying out the molds: 5minutes
2. Spraying Mold Release: 2Minutes
3. Making Concrete Mix (While the other guy is laying and releasing the molds)
15minutes
4. Pouring the mix into the molds: 10minutes
5. Setting Time for stones: 45minutes
6. Popping and palletizing the stones: 30mintues
7. Start the process again.
8. End of day we cleaned the mixer which took 10mintues.
(Properly Calculating your mixes will prevent excessive waste which will cut
down on Mixer Cleaning intervals and time)
We were able to start the process again every 1.5hours. We could have done more than 4 pours in an 8 hour shift but why rush if you dont have too.
I will be working on a marbling technique for the next batch of stone I am working on. These will be used on a fireplace. I'm already guessing that i will spend roughly $1.5 a sqft to achieve the colors I want. Its great to be able to customize this stuff....they told me I would get the stone making bug, I guess thats what I got!
Thanks for the responses and am looking forward to more.
I am not familiar with a high perfomance cement, what is the name of that? Type II goes for around 8 bucks a bag, and their mix design calls for a six sack mix, plus the pozzolan and high performance cement. How many SqFt did you get per yard, and what did the pozzolan cost you?
Also, if the pop out time was 45 minutes and you only cleaned the mixer at the end of the day, I would hate to see it's condition now. Regardless, even at 80 SqFt per day in 5 hours, my time is still not worth it.
I am glad it worked for you, but for someone doing it on weekends and evenings, your time frame would not apply. More like 6 months to produce 2200 SqFt.
If you are going to do it, you should buy enough molds to equate to your batch size. That will also help with creating a non repeating pattern.
Thanks for the information!
When you say high performance cement, I assume this is a high early strength portland (Type III) based on the setting time. Especially quick since the pozzolanic is a retarder.
Alternating color batches works well once you get past the first two batches.
You can easily get lightweight aggregate. The type will depend on your location. This could reduce the weight slightly, but also can make the stones easier to lay. In some cases, it can make them more durable.
In the east, your pumice would have been white and available from any number of concrete block plants if you talk nice. There are many very good manufactured lighweights with gray to tan colors. The best ones are distributed up and down the Mississippi River from Louisian to Minnesota and across the south. If you have contacts, you may even be able to get manufactured lightweight fines with a round particle shape (uncrushed). In the west you can get many different type of natural lightweight aggregates (pumice, scoria, volcanic cinders, etc.) in a wide range of colors. The colored aggregates can cut your pigments costs and offer some nice natural variations.
Dick
Not worth 5 hours a day for roughly 30days to save over $11,000+????
It takes longer than 30 days to get already made Cultured Stone! Actually it can take up to 2-3 months to get your order from the majority of major stone veneer suppliers. Hmmm...make my own stone....or buy it for $11,000+ more and wait forever to get it....hmmm....if I need more Cultured Stone I will also need to wait another 1-3months to get it...hmmm...that could have added up to 4-6months to complete my project...hmmm....not for me!
A Do It Yourselfer can appreciate DIY stuff like this. I did this in my spare time and loved doing it and got better results than buying stone.
As for the condition of the mixer, since our batches were calculated properly, its just as good as new aside from the standard mixer scratches from mixing course materials like aggregates and sand. All you would need to clean the mixer is to add a 5 gallon bucket worth of water and just let the mixing paddles spin for a couple minutes to clean itself. Im not sure what kind of techniques or concrete mixer you use to mix concrete but my technique is working fine and is cutting down on the need to clean after every batch. I would suggest trying it out first before knocking it. Taking time to calculate your batches will help you a lot. The reason why you have to clean your mixer after every batch is the simple fact that you have too much left over concrete which is a result of not calculating your batches right....simple as that. Anything else can be simply cleaned as mentioned above.
Hello Dick,
I used a standard High Performance Cement that was bagged locally. Actually the bagging company gave me High Performance cement in Plaster Bags (Guess they wanted to use them up). Next time I'm down there I will ask them exactly what it is. I was turned onto the high performance cement by that supplier because they have another customer that uses high performance cement to cast fireplace mantels. He thought it would work for me too and it did pretty well.
Without adding the pozzolan (Type 33 Natural Pozzolan -Volcanic Ash) to the mix we had problems with the mix setting too fast. Luckily the pozzolan slowed down the setting time and gave us enough time to work with it.
I'm going to take your suggestion to contact a block manufucturer for lightweight aggregate...GREAT SUGGESTION...I was at a road block in regards to the lightweight aggregates. THANKS A MILLION!
The thread has been edited to remove the links. Please read the forum rules.
DidItMySelf -
I was very interested in your claims to have developed a new method to manufacture veneer. That was the reason for my questions to determine the materials and process to overcome the always present mold turn-around problem. Only time and conditions will determine the suitability of the veneer.
I don't know if you sell/promote mold kits or did it your self, but you are definitely wandering around in uncharted waters. I say this based on your description on the process, materials used and the supposed properties of the stones.
If you made the stones, it is obvious that you were guessing and/or relying on false information or a lack of information. The result is that you have veneer units of questionable value. It is possible that you live in the right climate and got lucky. You certainly have not made units that match the quality of those from a national producer and you may have mislead others to make the same mistakes and theirs may fail because of the process, materials and conditions.
It is stange you have never mentioned any standards regarding the materials to be used or the performance of the units themselves. The American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) is an organization dealing with these of requirements. In fact, almost every product or material made or used follows these standards and methods of testing to insure repeatability.
The cement you used is in all likelyhood not permited in most concrete products. You probably bought some sort of adultered cement not meeting any quality standard. The old game of playing with gypsum to give some false properties was a cheap, common way to get cement to set. The downside is the durability. It is a cheap way to quickly get some concrete out the door and sold without regard to future performance. It is not designed to be durable, so I hope you live in a warm dry climate and keep the sprinkler off the wall. Your mold supplier was very negligent in not providing you with better information.
Natuaral pozzolans are very touchy or dangerous to work with because the the range of properties. You did not give an exact description or specifications for the pozzolans, but did mention Type 33. By a stretch of immagination this could be referred to ASTM C33, which is an aggregate specification. A product could be referred to in this standard, but that does not necessarily mean it is permitted in your product, especially in the amount you probably had to use to change the setting time. An excess of pozzalans can lead to many problems like long term (not intial) efflorescence and reduced durability. You apparently had to use a large amount to slow the setting of the doctored cement.
Both of the above items are the reasons it takes more than a back-yard cook to come up with a good product that will perform well. All of the marketed products are designed for durability and are tested for long periods for freeze/thaw and wetting/drying performance. This is because they are worried about the future and not just one isolated job. This is especially true for masonry products where the cost of installation is so much more than the material cost/savings - They cannot afford failures and problems.
DIY is usually an method to save money by using a person's own labor to give a professional job. Re-inventing the wheel and developing different products that lead others to possible failures should be left to private research.
Your testing had no bearing on the product quality, was meaningless and probably not accurate. The mention of 7000 psi exceeding the standards has no importance, especially for a veneer. I don't know how you sampled and tested the concrete, but the garden variety concrete cylinder test is ASTM C39, which is a compressive test requiring laboratory curing and sample preparation. The equipment is costly, so it must be done in a laboratory and by trained, certified technicians. I don't think you mentioned that this was done. Typical equipment is a 200,000# to 400,000# testing machine and equipment for the curing and capping of the samples. The strength has no real bearing on the durability, especially with the materials used. There are far more appropriate tests, but they are costly and reflected in the retail cost of stones.
I have seen concrete products with a strength of 10,000 psi fail durability tests, while unts with strengths below 3000 psi performed with absolutely no problems.
I admire your work and tenacity to get the cost of the stone as low as possible and hope it works for you in your location/climate. I hope it does not lead others to the conclusion that they can do the same without good, proven materials, instructions and processes that are designed for most areas If it is an interior mantle, that is one thing, but the exterior of a home in a wet ot cool climate is a different story.
Dick
Concretemasonry
I appreciate your input. I'm certainly not a mold maker or a mold salesmen. I just appreciate when a company can actually help other people save money while making a good product.
In reality, the company that I purchased the Pozzolan from guided me in mixing at correct ratios which is 3 parts Cement to 1 part Pozzolan. The pozzolan I used is an exact replacement to Lime without the side effects of lime. I'm not sure what your expirience is working with concrete and pozzolans but Im sure you have not used the Pozzolan I am talking about with High Performance Cement...so you are just guessing.
Not all Pozzolans are alike and many have different reactions when added to a concrete mix. The reason why I use Volcanic Ash Pozzolan is because that is what the Romans added to cements to build the structures that are still standing today.
The pozzolanic reaction is slower than the rest of the reactions which occur during cement hydration, and thus the short-term strength of concrete made with pozzolans may not be as high as concrete made with purely cementitious materials. Hence the reason why it slows down the High Performance Cements setting time.
The bottom line is this:
Stone Veneer is just that....A VENEER! Not made to do anything other than be a decorative covering on a wall...nothing else.
If a DIY'r made stone with even a standard Quikrete Premix Concrete formula, where you just add water, it will still work just fine and be within code. Not sure what the big fuss is about since you can already make your own pavers and other concrete products just by using Quikrete Premixed Concrete or something like it.
Honestly, how hard is it to make a concrete mix and pour it into Rubber Molds to make stone veneer? My 8 year old son is able to do that without instructions...just add water and flick the switch on the mixer!
Even Cultured Stone and other stones available have a problem with brittle batches and low quality stones. If you dont believe me, go down to a stone yard, dig through the Cultured Stone pallets and see for yourself. People who have worked with Cultured Stone know exactly what I'm talking about.
For most people, quality and durability are important properties and values.
You do not make pavers out of Qikrete type products, you only make pieces of concrete or stepping stones. The pre-blended products are very good and are more consistant than what a person can produce. However, they are designed for specific applications. The weights and density of veneer products must be compatible with the surface bonding/attachment methods.
Granted, veneer is not a weather barrier, but it must survive (physically and visually) the weather. There is a long list of exterior siding products that did not turn out to be durable and there were many unhappy users and lawsuits, even in temperate climates. This is the reason for the amount of money spent on the research and production on veneeer units.
3:1 cement to pozzolan is too high for any pozzolan if you want real durability. Pozzolans do not do the same thing as lime. Unfortunately, you are confusing Roman mortars with concrete.
For your information, I do have some information and background on concrete, concrete units, masonry applications, codes and specifications. I have 40 years experience in manufacturing, design and use of concrete products. I have worked with manufactured/processed and natural pozzolans in the U.S. and Europe (Italy, Greece, Canary Islands). I am active on national and international code and standards committees. Having examined construction and materials in over 35 countries, I have seen many historic and current applications and have written several papers.
Italians do not build the way Romans did and do not use the same materials today for good reason. The same applies especially in the northern reaches of the old Roman Empire since the warm climate methods and materials did not fair as well once you got away from the sunny Mediterranian.
I am concerned with providing correct information for those that follow the forums. Nothing is worse than spending a great deal of time and effort on a DIY project and find out a year or two later that it is not suitable for the application or location. All too often a project concept is sold as being easy, but local technical support is inadequate or can mislead a person when confronted with different materials and CLIMATES.
I am sure the appearance of your veneer is to you liking and hope it will be durable for your climate. You certainly thought out and tailored the production to your needs. I just want any veneer to be produced to be satisfactory for the common severe climates.
Dick
Thanks for the honest reply. It still doesn't make what you are saying correct.
Honestly, if you make a piece of concrete to code and set it out on the ground and walk on it for years, do you think it will break or get damaged? We walk on concrete all over the place, if its ok on the ground where there is foot traffic and more exposure to the elements it will be ok on a wall with no exposure to foot traffic. Especially if you seal the concrete...you should know that.
You do not make pavers out of Quikrete type products, you only make pieces of concrete or stepping stones
Grammar don't really gonna matter, you know what I mean. Besides, thats exactly my point...making pieces of concrete that look like stone hence...STONE VENEER...which is a piece of concrete.
I tell you what..make a mix using Quikrete and pour it into a plastic cup. Then take it into the nearest Materials Testing Lab and have them test it to see if it is within code for Stone Veneer Units...you will see that if you follow the directions on the bag you will be within code. Shouldn't cost you more than $250 for the testing. They will tell you that as long as the compressive strength is there you are within code and provide you with the certified results to back it up....simple as that.
Even if you use the worst possible mix, in the most extreme enviroments, there is always a concrete sealer to solve the problem of damage to concrete due to climate conditions.
Like i said, quality and durability are there and is tested and proven. The Compressive strength of concrete is an absolute indicator of good concrete. With good compressive strength you can almost always bet that the concrete was made right and will withstand the elements.
Besides...take a look at the stone veneer being sold by major manufacturers...its usually crap and always has primary efflouresence. I dont see you complaining about that....hmmm.
The Pozzolan supplier I was and am working with has created concrete mixes for companies that have won international awards for its the properties that this type of Pozzolan added to the concrete mix. I think I will take their advice on what ratios to mix since it is there product and they know what it consists of, inside and out. Until you actually work with this specific pozzolan product you cannot pass judgement. Like I said before...not all pozzolans are the same and you should know that, being a person of considerable concrete knowledge that you are.
You are also wrong about the Pozzolan not replacing lime. As a matter of fact there are a few stucco and masonry companies that use this type of natural Pozzolan to do just that...replace the lime.
This is about making stone veneer which as you honestly must know is extremely simple to do....dont believe me, TRY IT!
Go do a yahoo search for Stone Veneer Molds and pick any company that is selling stone veneer molds. Cast some stones, take them in to be tested and then let me know what you think!
Sir, I think you are misguided. Concretemasonry has lent his expertise to literally thousands of DIY'ers on this board. To assume that he has an ulterior motive is ludicrous.
Speaking for myself, I daily help DIY'ers in person to fullfil their masonry projects, no matter what they may be, as well as service masonry contractors, architects and engineers in the masonry field. I visit this board specifically to help DIY'ers, not to sell them anything. Concretemasonry has me beat in experience, but I have been involved professionally in the concrete industry for 20+ years, both as a contractor and as a supplier.
If you would like to discuss actual methods of making faux stone, I would be interested, both because I am involved in the industry and because I think it is personally a very interesting subject.
Tscarborogh,
I'm sure he has tons of expirience in other areas but he has NO experience making his own stone veneer. He might want to make it sound more complicated than it is but until he does it he cant say anything more than...I don't know yet.
You guys may have been right in other forum topics but you are certainly wrong on this one. Experience triumphs over speculation any day in my book.
If anyone else on this forum has any experience making stone veneer please help me set these guys straight.
Actually, I am a commercial masonry supplier. Cultured stone is less than 5% of our business, cement and CMU are 80% with brick and tools the remainder.
I do have experience with molding concrete on both a large and small scale, and extensive experience with colored concrete and mortar. As I said, if you want to discuss the technical aspects, I think that would help the DIY'ers.
This is a good start for the technical aspect of making your own veneer stone:
http://www.icc-es.org/Criteria/pdf_files/ac51.pdf
As you can see, the primary limitation is the weight per square foot. Using standard concrete without lightweight aggregate, and assuming a 1-1/2 thickness of stone, I come up with around 18.75# per SqFt, dry. This alone exceeds the standard and could cause delamination of the substrate, if not structural problems.
Lightweight aggregate is readily available in various forms and should always be used for veneer stone. There is even a bagged concrete mix in national distribution that contains lightweight aggregate and has a high early and compressive strength to boot.
For a DIY'er this is what I would recommend, since it removes a large part of the guesswork from the equation.
Here is a breakdown of costs, assuming I was a DIY with none of the tools required for a 2200 SqFt project:
Tools:
3CuYd Mixer: 400.00
20SqFt Molds: 500.00
Trowels and Misc: 100.00
Total: $1000.00
Materials:
Lightweight Concrete Mix (per CuYd) 162.00
Coloring and release (per CuYd) 80.00
Total: 222.00
Yards required (216SqFt per Yd): 10
Total material cost: $2220.00
Labor:
2 hours per batch @ 20.00 per hour (2200/20): $2200.00
Total cost per SqFt: $2.46 per SqFt
Not bad, overall, though I consider my labor to be worth more than 20.00 bucks an hour and I would assume at least 10% waste and breakage (probably closer to 20%).
The numbers go up rapidly for projects smaller than this, though, and since most DIY'ers have a job, I still do not see making your own stone as a viable alternative for individuals. For a small homebuilder, maybe, for someone looking to sell the product, sure, but a homeowner simply does not have time to expend to make it work.
Most projects that I sell, other than commercial, are in the range of 70-400 SqFt, and those DIY'ers would certainly not profit from attempting to do it themselves.
For a select few, it can work, and I would and do encourage them to go for it, just like I do for acid staining floors and creating concrete countertops.
Thats more like it Tscarborough....thats what I was hoping would happen here, real breakdowns and real discussion.
Good idea to take into consideration the equipment breakdown. I would guess that the only people that would really use rubber molds like these are those that either do a lot of small projects or larger projects like the one I took on. I wouldn't suggest making your own stone if you have 1 or 2 small 70sqft projects...unless you want to customize your color scheme, then thats another story.
In pre-planning I took the weight of the stones (without using lightweight aggregate) into consideration and I did the following:
I poured my concrete into the molds the same depth as the current industry standard sizes for quick fit panels (All major manufacturers carry a version) which comes out to roughly 1 thick which made my stones roughly 12lbs per sqft - saturated.
I would have liked to use lightweight aggregate but couldn't get any unless I was willing to pay for an entire load.
I wander how staining stone veneer would work. I'm thinking it would be to tedious and time consuming but I never did it myself. Any ideas?
It can be done, as any unsealed concrete can be stained. I've done it on poured formliner walls, which are difficult because 1) they are vertical, and 2) you need to use several random colors to make it look realistic. Detailing on a standing wall is a pain.
For your veneer, I would suggest staining them in lots while they are laying horizontal. Then, after you seal them you have several colors that you can lay up in a random pattern.
I used acid stain, which gives a natural look, but has many properties that need to be understood and addressed. Acid stain color is permanent, while pigmented stains are more like diluted paint, and may cause color loss in the future.
The stain can be applied with an all-plastic sprayer, which makes it fast and easy.
Pecos
Let's keep this thread civil as in the last 4 or 5 posts. Any further comments and remarks of a personal rather than technical nature will not be tolerated.
In all this discussion, has anyone mentioned air-entrained concrete in exterior applications? I'm not all that familiar with stone veneer, but I have been a concrete contractor for 20 years in a freeze/thaw climate. I have seen countless jobs (not mine) that look good for a few years, then rapidly fall apart because the concrete was not air-entrained and was damaged by freezing. Likewise, I've seen a lot of jobs that have popouts and spalling due to absorptive aggregate, called chert, that was in with the batched gravel. Almost all of these jobs had been properly sealed, and the builders were at a loss as to the cause of the delamination.
I don't know if air entraining is common practice for veneer, but if it's not, could someone explain why not? Thanks!
Pecos
If you are dealing with wet cast concrete for exposed use in a climate where there is freezing, air entrained concrete is necessary. You can buy air entrained cement and in some cases you can buy air entrained pre-proportioned concrete mixes. These usually give you the correct amount of air for durability.
If you are adding chemicals to the concrete mix, you end up with an unknown amount amount of air and durability will suffer. Adding an excess amount of fines (pozzlanics) will increase the surface area of the mix and will also reduce the air entrainment and decrease durability. Excessive amounts of pozzolanics and fines decrease the effectiveness of both the cement and air entraining agents.
If a super plasticizer is used, the dosage rate of an air entraining agent must be adjusted to get the correct percentage of air. This is done at a costruction site using the typical site testing equipment.
Non-wetcast concrete has a different pore structure and air entraining agents are not needed.
Because durability is so critical, air entrainment is one of the most researched items in the field of concrete. Without a proper air void system, the moisture in concrete can cause deterioration when subjected to freezing. Higher strength concrete is not a substitute for air entrainment.
Dick
So Dick,
are you saying that air entraining is needed in veneer, or not?
Pecos
Several of the sites selling molds recommend the use of air entrained concrete for veneer in areas that may have cyclical weathering. The ASTM standard is listed as a work in progress.
It may be possible that some of the manufactured stone manufacturers do not need it if their process is closer to a zero slump or dry tamp mix and does not react like a wet cast concrete. Of course, the major manufacturers have huge investments in production facilities ($1,000,000 to $20,000,000 per plant), research and advertising and have done extensive long term durability testing. In this way they have developed a process/materials combination for the product to be durable and have the desired properties. There is nothing to beat the results of long term testing and research.
The cost of the air entraining admixes are a very minor item in the production cost. If they do not use an air entraining material, they probablt have to use something else to assist in proper mold filling and uniform density.
Many of the stone manufacturers use lighweight aggregate, which is more costly, to reduce the weight and permit the use of thicker units for different appearance and still have a surface veneer application. The good lightweight aggregates do have internal air voids that can help in durability in many cases. The use of lightweight aggregate requires considerable testing and may require prewetting of the aggregate, so it is not for the casual user.
Concrete products manufacture can be a very sophisticated process. The increased international influence on cement plants has contributed to more technical and exotic uses of concrete products. They apparently see where this can increase the volume by making better products.
Interlocking pavers, which are some of the most durable concrete products and are subjected to severe salt and freeze/thaw conditions do not use traditional air entrained concrete because they are manufactured using zero slump concrete and not wet cast concrete. They get performance by maximizing density and minimizing the anount of potentiall reactive cement paste while still getting 8,000 to 10,000 psi strengths.
Dick
dear
how you can kindly help me to start producing my veneer stones and to get the molds and the color technique[recipes] pleas?
regards
riyadh mihssen
iraq-babel-hilla
Would you please kindly provide with some links and more information if is possible please. I plan to retire and stone making seems like an interesting project for the nearest future.
To DidItMyself: can you tell me what company you purchased molds from please.
I have found several companies some cheap some pretty expensive. For me expensive is more then 5000$ and some companies would sell rubber molds for 12,000+.
At this point information for me is the most important thing. I want to know everything related to the topic.
To Concretemasonry, Tscarborough. You do write like people who can help me with references: books, websites, manual instructions. I would appreciate if you can write to XXXXXXXXX
Thanks in advance
and regards.
Yuriy
It is possible to make them yourself if you have the correct materials.
It is doubltful you could equal the quality of the manufactured units.
Where are you and what types of lightweight aggregates are available?
Dick
thank you for the prompt answer Dick.
It is doubltful you could equal the quality of the manufactured units
I understand that. All I want is to be able to produce something with reasonable good quality.
Where are you and what types of lightweight aggregates are available?
Please tell me what you think would be a good production cycle in New York area.
Production cycle depends on how many molds. Why are you worrying about production for a DIY project?
If you are planning to sell them, I would no be interested in helping someone sell lower quality products.
Dick
If you are planning to sell them, I would no be interested in helping someone sell lower quality products.
I don't want to sell them in NY, just learn produce. I plan to make them in Ukraine where stone manufacturing seems like a good alternative for my current occupation because it will keep me away from the computer and market.
Anyway thanks and good luck in your business.
ykhm -
I was concerned with encouraging someone to produce lower quality stones and degrading the excellent job the current U.S. stone producers have done in the marketing, promotion and quality control of manufactured stone. That is the reason I asked where you were from. The expansion they are talking about into Europe is one of the first things the concrete industry has brought to Europe in years instead of receiving technology.
I have been to Ukraine and have also spent a great deal of time in Belarus, which has many construction and material similarities.
There is certainly a need for a stone veneer as an alternate on the concrete buildings that seem to be the standard for housing. Cultured or manufactured stone could be an asset to the construction industry if it is made to a high standard. I do not know what scale you plan to oprate on, but here is some information that should help a producer planning on a long term operation.
You will need a supply of uniform, quality, lightweight aggregate (Ceramzit or Keramzit - translation is poor), which is an expanded shale or clay. Most of what I saw was very high quality, coarse and some was rounded (uncrushed) for the concrete sandwich panel production. It should be possible to get it in a proper size. It is supplied to the precast concrete apartment component manufacturers. You will also need concrete sand.
You will also need some pigments (synthetic iron oxide), that probably will have to come from Germany. If you have contacts in Minsk, they may be able to help you find a source. They have made colored, split concrete block for many upper level homes. Ask for Alexi (tell him dick says hello if he is there), who was the director a few years ago. The manufacture of concrete block is not the same as the manufactured stone, but the materials are the same.
You should also find a supplier of concrete admixtures to improve the properties of the concrete. Most U.S. suppliers are now owned by European companies, so you should be able to find something available initially. They can provide technical assistance.
The cement you have available is very good.
I am not an expert on the details of the manufacturing, but the stone mold supplier should be able to give you information on where to start. If they do not have that information, do not buy from that supplier.
You will have a difficult time producing stone equal to those in the U.S., but they have a few years advantage.
Good luck!!
Dick
Hi Dick
Keramzit
it is something I was about to throw away because nobody would mention it here.
Yes Keramzit that we have is rounded (uncrushed) 1/4-3/4 in diameter and I thought roundness would compromise the strength of the stone.
We also have scoria from a coal burning electric power station. I thought scoria would be better then Keramzit it would create uniform mixture, don't you think? Also I was going to search for pumice, but not sure if it is available there.
Thank you Dick, your information was useful especially about cement and Keramzit .
I plan to start on a very small scale (maybe try to make ledgestone enough for a fence) also I will be experimenting with natural stones - sand stones and river stones. But the problem with sand stones is that it is becoming very scarce..
Regards,
Yuriy
Your Keramzit should be crushed with a maximum size of 1/4 and the fine dust removed. You will have to use concrete sand also.
You do not have scoria (translation problem) from the power plant. It is actually bottom ash, the residual from burning the coal. What I have seen most of it is high in carbon, which is not good. It is probably the size the keramzit should be.
You will not find good pumice in your area, to my knowledge. The good pumice used in the U.S. comes from Greek islands. The cost of shipping by water to Odessa or other port and then by truck or rail would be very high.
Dick
Dick -
got it - no ash and no pumice.
What would be proper combination of sand, cement and Keramzit?
Sorry I can not tell you property of the cement that we have. You mentioned before it is good enough.
It look like you know a bit about Ukraine. Do you often go there, may I ask?
ykhm
Can anyone lead me to the correct type and color to be used for the staining of the stone veneer. Also, is there a time frame after the stone is removed from mold that is need to be stained.
Thanks
Hi, I am a new member, after reading everything about stone veneers I still can not understand if it is possible to make high quality stone veneer in garage. What should I add to concrete
mix if I living in very wet climate . I will be very thanksfull to every one would answer me
Dan
Anything is possible but your actual question is, is it probable that I can create high quality faux stone in my garage The answer is probably not, or at least not on a practical or cost effective scale. If it is something you want to try, go for it though.
hello, my name is Camilo iґm from spain. And i want to know how i have to apply the oxide colours in the mould. Could you explain me please? thanks
Hi there,
I'm very much intersted in knowing make stone veneers and where I could find the molds needed. Just a short description would do the most for me.
You have my thanks for assisting me.
Originally Posted by DidItMyself
I ran across a website that sold me rubber molds to make stone veneer. I was suprised that they sold me less than 100sqft of molds. I tried to buy from another company and needed to buy at least 100sqft of molds to get started. I just wanted to make enough stone to complete my 2200sqft project so I got a 20sqft package of rubber molds.
I was going to pay $7 a sqft for Cultured Stone but after doing the numbers...hmmm...I couldn't afford it. Making my own stone cost me roughly $1.13 cents sqft including labor. I used a high performance concrete mix in order to get 4 castings a day out of my molds, as opposed to the standard 1 time a day. That gave me 80sqft of stone per day so I was able to finish in about 1 1/2 months. I actually had to make around 2230sqft of stone since some of the stone were undesireable due to air-holes...but I fixed that.
Real World Bottom Line:
2200sqft job using Cultured Stone @ roughly $7sqft would have cost me $15400.00.
2200sqft job making my own stone @ $1.13sqft costs me $500 for the molds and another $2486 for materials/misc. items. I spent roughly $3000 to make my own stone veneer and saved roughly $12400.00.
I sent a picture of the finished project to the folks that sold me the molds so it might be posted on their site under the Parson Residence. If someone else has expirience making stone veneer or any tips or tricks you can pass on...Im all ears cause Im getting ready for another project.
Tags: make, your, stone, veneer, Cultured Stone, make stone, more than, that have, lightweight aggregate, stone veneer, concrete products, have been
